Re: Bruce and companions' bodies.

[milamba <milamba@milamba.com>]

Hi Laurel,

Yes, I noticed that miscalculation after I'd hit send and it was on it's 
way! no taking back email!!  (I can blame that on being pregnant! 
LOL).  But I would still lean toward the August date at least for the 
reasons that you put forward before - it seems somewhat unlikely that they 
would have made the journey in 12 days.

Regards
Margaret :)


At 11:53 PM 10/08/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Subject: Re: Bruce and companions' bodies.
>
>
>
>Yes, that makes sense that John could have been a squire.  But your argument
>for March needs to be looked at again.  I have rearranged your sentences in
>chronological order.  Notice Bruce died in 1329 in Scotland.  The battle of
>Teba was the next year.  Only Bruce's heart was at the Battle.  It was
>Douglas and 2 Sinclairs and the two Logans that died at Teba.
>     But I lean towards the August date because it seems impossible to sail
>that far in only 12 days as explained in my other message.--But then, I made
>so many typing errors, you probably can't read it.  Sorry.  Two phone calls
>and a refrigerator repairman to blame plus hurrying too much to get through
>the E-mails and out to stain the deck.
>
>references the death of Bruce as occuring  "at Cardross on 7 June
> >1329"
> >He states that the Battle of Theba (Teba) occured on 25 August, 1330, and
>
> >.  If Bruce died in June (1329), then the battle certainly couldn't have
> >taken place in March (1330). [your statement my ( )]
>Laurel
> >=========================
> >Just a thought on Lena and Niven's write ups on this battle.  There's
> >actually no need to claim that John St Clair was the "unamed
> >Knight".  Niven never actually claims that.  There were 26 other squires
> >and gentlemen with them, and it's more than likely John was Sir William's
> >squire, in which case he wouldn't have been named.  It is commonly known
> >and accepted that the two brothers were basically always together, and so
> >it would be fairly natural to assume that they were together for this
> >battle.  As well, as Niven points out, there were the post mortem payments
> >to the nephew, which if John had been alive, would have gone to him, as his
> >nephews guardian (and his own by right).  So I would think it's fairly safe
> >to say that he was with his brother and did die at the Battle of Teba,
> >without ever needing to lay claim to the "Unnamed Knight"
> >
> >Also, from "The Bloody Heart" by By Peter Drummond-Murray of Mastrick,
> >Slains Pursuivant of Arms.
> >
> >Originally printed in The Double Tressure - Journal of the Heraldry Society
> >of Scotland, Number 16, 1994
> >
>
> >
> >The article in full can be found at
> >http://www.cyberhighway.net/~cutter/cdsna/bloody.htm, complete with
>sources.
> >
> >Regards
> >Margaret (milamba)
> >
> >
> >
> >At 10:44 PM 09/08/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >>Thus far we have the Battle of Teba occuring in three different months:
> >>
> >>25 March 1330 (Laurel quoting Ronald McNair Scott)
> >>
> >>8th September, 1330 (Niven)
> >>
> >>25 August 1330 (Pete Cummings)
> >>
> >>At least we all agree on the year....
> >>
> >> >>Mediterranian and then up the coast to Scotland, it is obvious that in
>that
> >> >>warm climate these bodies couldn't be taken home as they were.  So Sir
> >> >>William Keith had the bodies prepared for the journey by having them
>boiled
> >> >>(in vinegar-from a Cadfael story) so that the flesh fell off.  It was
>only
> >> >>the bones of the dead that went back to Scotland.  The flesh was buried
>in
> >> >>holy ground in Spain.  I wonder whether anyone has gone there to look
>for a
> >> >>monument to them?
> >>
> >>Teba (not Theba; there is no th in Spanish) has its own web pages:
> >>  http://www.costadelsol.net/web/teba/Index.htm
> >>
> >>They mention a memorial plaque.  That battle was the biggest thing
> >>that ever happened in Teba. :-)
> >>
> >>As for Saladin,
> >>  http://www.manhal.com/salah.html
> >>yes, he was exceptional, but Muslims in general considered Christian
> >>Europeans to be barely better than barbarians with no manners, and with
> >>quite a bit of justification, given the behavior of the crusaders.
> >>The Byzantines held a similar opinion, for similar reasons.
> >>
> >>In any case, Laurel and Niven's writeups are now in
> >>  http://www.mids.org/sinclair/who/william_d_teba.html
> >>
> >>John S. Quarterman <jsq@mids.org>
> >>[ This is the Sinclair family discussion list, sinclair@mids.org
> >>[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.mids.org/sinclair/list.html
> >
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>
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